Inside the 1228, it would appear that which same Clemence and her partner Nicholas was in fact chose for infant custody away from Joanna and Llywelyn's child Susanna (aged regarding fourteen?). appears to be on child is brought up from inside the a secure and you may secure environment towards chance of a much better knowledge. the case was becoming kept off their particular. The brand new custodial offer is actually from the Queen Henry III, half-brother so you're able to Joanna and you may 50 % of-buddy so you're able to Susanna, yet the decree called Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you may Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A question today presents in itself. You to you'll be able to response is you to Clemence's father, Philip le Boteler is actually French, instead of English. It had been very common at that time for all of us to hold properties with the both parties of your own Route. So it ed his dilies than in English group during this time period.
The only book where I have found a reference to Clemence Pinel – wife from Henry Pinel (other than Charles Cawley in Wikipedia) is in Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Household: The whole Family history (London, 1989).' It book is detailed from the you to genealogist due to the fact ‘not as fully annotated.' My personal trawl from the genealogy and family history message boards discover scant source towards Pinel friends, and additionally Clemence's partner Henry Pinel. Several records advise that Joanna is actually new daughter of Henry Pinel and his awesome partner Clemence, however, no supplies, capable of being seemed, are supplied. I'm hence lured to disregard this lady off next research. I can getting extremely completely wrong.
In the event the Joanna is actually the newest child off Clemence le Boteler, out-of, appear to a keen English domestic, how do we define exactly what Joanna is actually doing when you look at the France when Queen John sent to possess their inside the 1203?
Clemence de Fougers is the new aunt of Richard de Hommet, Constable out-of Normandy, and Geoffrey de- Fougeres. Their unique father are William du Fougers. I have no big date off birth (or dying) out-of Clemence, however, she was first partnered just before 1200 (no day offered) beautiful Can women seeking older men so you can Alan de- Dinan, and try popular adequate to marry in October 1200, since the their next spouse, Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl from Chester and you will Vicomte d'Avranches, has just separated (wedding annulled?) from Constance out-of Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured you to Earl Ranulph separated Constance for having had an affair having Queen John!
Of course, perform which Clemence function as the mother off Joanna, she would also be brand new granny away from Susanna, even though there isn’t any reasoning to believe your young Joanna know, at this time, there is a family group relationships, in the event the
Since the Clemence de- Fougers try daughter and you may aunt off Constables regarding Normandy, It is think likely that John, Amount of Mortain, when you look at the Normandy, knew out of their own [and possibly *knew* their own, just before their own marriage to help you Ranulph]. A virtually connection to John you'll explain what can seem a highly useful 2nd wedding to possess Clemence so you're able to Ranulph.
Ranulph, 6 th Earl out of Chester not, are a powerful baron plus it beggars trust, about personally, that he would have recognized a married relationship so you're able to a female who had had a known affair and you will a consequent child by the John, Matter away from Mortain certain ten years previously. For example given the rumours nearby a potential fling between John and 1st spouse Constance!